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Today, we discuss a case of a patient who 45 mintues prior to arrival took took 150 Labetalol 100mg and 70 Amlodipine 10mg.
Prior EMCrit Podcast
Hemodynamically Neutral Intubation
3 Presentations for CCB or BB OD
- Vasodilatory
- Negative-Inotropy (& Chronotropy)
- Combined Picture
Vasopressor-Only Management
For me this is only appropriate for primarily vasodilatory shock (PMID 23642908, Skoog et al., Levine et al.)
Tum-E-Vac Commercial Device for Gastric Lavage
If you believe in lavage…
Prior Post on Calcium Channel Blocker OD
Extrip on CCB
Both dialyzability and clinical data do not support a clinical benefit from ECTRs for CCB poisoning. The EXTRIP workgroup recommends against using extracorporeal methods to enhance the elimination of amlodipine, diltiazem, and verapamil in patients with severe poisoning. [10.1080/15563650.2020.1870123]
Tox & Hound on Mechanism of Insulin
Now on to the Podcast…
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Editor-in-Chief, at EMCrit.org
An ED Intensivist from NY.
Professor
Chief, Division of Emergency Critical Care
Director, Resuscitation and Acute Critical Care Unit
Stony Brook Medicine
Stony Brook, NY, USA
No conflicts of interest (coi).
Professor
Chief, Division of Emergency Critical Care
Director, Resuscitation and Acute Critical Care Unit
Stony Brook Medicine
Stony Brook, NY, USA
No conflicts of interest (coi).
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Superb! What a great feeling to see that lady leave the hospital after coming so close to the void. Is FOAM at the point yet where cases can be shared in a structured manner that will allow the stats geeks to tease out the harm/ benefit of various interventions in these high stakes but relatively low frequency presentations? I’m imagining a kind of google doc in which everybody chimes in, is then validated by a hardworking team of med students or whatnot, then maybe we could finally put to rest the stuff that hurts more than it helps and make… Read more »
Thanks for sharing a great case Scott! Really enjoyed the case format to the podcast, looking forward to hearing more of them, cheers
Case study was awesome!! Keep them comin!!!
Wow, excellent case! Thank you for walking through the clinical reasoning and the progression. I am new to this podcast and look forward to more. I’m curious though as to why you were skeptical of Intralipids. We had a similar case in our emergency room with a patient who ingested 700-900mg of amlodipine. The team discussed the use of lipid emulsion, but also did not use it. Upon further digging into the efficacy of lipid emulsion for lipophilic drug overdose, both labetalol and amlodipine have high lipophilicity and membrane permeability. I believe it could have been helpful. There are dozens… Read more »
thanks for your comments, Chris. Unfortunately, all of the case reports are muddied by numerous co-interventions and confounders. Consensus in the tox community is not there on intralipids for non-LAST. I would reserve them for a Hail Mary in places without ECMO.
Thanks for the response, Scott! It’s true the case reports are muddied with other interventions. However when all else fails, I think it’s still a great option to keep in your back pocket. Looking forward to more of your podcast – Chris
Excellent. I have a question. Do you see any role for temporary pacemaker in these kind of situations. Also, it may sound going over the board but would you ever consider leaving swan ganz in place for close monitoring of shock status ( vasodilatory vs. cardiogenic ) rather than going by echo and physical examination to determine the need for ECMO ? Will appreciate your response.
all the tox folks tell me pacemaker will not work. if I get one that is severely brady, I am going to give it a shot if I am placing a line anyway
Wow ! What a great case !! Thank you so much for sharing
Do you think there’s any role to a Vasopressin Drip in the set-up of a non-septic distributive shock with max dosed norepi ?
I love the case study format !
Have a nice day
Fred
Vasopressin gtt is actually very effective in my clinical experience. A witnessed a severe Nicardipene overdose in the setting of CABG during the harvesting of saphenous. Scenario: An non-working IV pump was being changed, and my colleague assumed that the gtt line was clamped…nope. 40mg of Nicardipene infused rapidly into central line – straight to the heart. SEVERE vasoplegia. Pushed 100 mcg Epi and 100 mcg Levophed into central line – no change in blood pressure. The heart rate began to brady down to 20 and 3 mg of vasopressin was pushed into central line – brought the blood pressure… Read more »
This case brings up an EMS question on ODs. Suppose while on scene, she is alert with stable VS but very recently ingested the pills <20-30 min. How about having her placing her fingers down the throat and induce immediate vomiting. Sometimes, truly suicidal patients have such trashed egos, they will do anything they are commanded to do. I'm not advocating ipecac (glad those days are over). Would this be a reasonable intervention to try on scene?
Hey Scott, Thank you so much for sharing this awesome case, loved all the hemodynamics stuff involved in this case.. i wish you’d share more cases with us here on EMCrit..
This wonderful case touched on the occasional utility of high-dose pressors – and I gotta wonder why you didn’t go higher than 100 mcg/min! I suspect that many salvageable distributive shock patients perish due to unwillingness/inability to escalate pressor doses above 30-60 mcg/min – and I also suspect that some patients who die after a good response to really high-dose pressors (100 – 500 mcg/min norepi) due so from logistic issues rather than futility (if the bag runs dry for 30 seconds, the patient arrests, and standard-concentration bags may run at near-bolus rates). With decades of proof-of-concept literature showing that… Read more »